TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives. This is a normal and desired behavior. The solenoids can be replaced separately, but only with the same type of solenoid. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. Eighth 0.85 $ 439.00 Select options. As we have all learned with other units, very often the root cause of a converter clutch failure stems from a failure within the electro/hydraulic controls from the transmission. To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. Gm hydro 10 speed. Torque Converter 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) Within only a year, GM had introduced an even stronger variant of the 6L80; the 6L90, RPO code MYD. 6L80E Specs The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. So why does the JMBX converter have this chronic problem? Applications. This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, 32-bit computer integrated into the valve body of the 6L80 / 6L90 and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. Theres also a unique internal thermal bypass that allows the transmission to warm up faster, reducing fuel consumption on cold starts. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. Made of billet aluminum with included swivel -6 AN fittings with 3/8" barbs. yr=d.getFullYear(); _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. * EXCELLENT FOR VEHICLES THAT ARE EQUIPPED WITH ENGINES PRODUCING UP TO 650 FT LBS OF TORQUE. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). 4. JT. Trying to decide if its worth upgrading for the 10L80 alone. After programming, perform the Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle and reevaluate the vehicle. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. This allows him to see what kinds of issues some of these transmissions come back to the dealer with while under warranty. This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. Production Began 2017 These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. Reply. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. Will this hurt the trani? Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. The overdrive ratio thats added is 0.75:1. Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. Its good for a 12.69 @ 111 mph in cool dry weather.I go down the track with the lock up switch off. Most full-size trucks and SUVs with a 6L80, 6L90 use a JMBX full-size (300mm) style converter. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. The 10L80 moniker is decoded. Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. My problem with the 4L80E is it was always a workhorse and in the past 25-30 years trucks have gotten much quicker and versatile. Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. This product is NOT intended to be used on factory OE vehicles such as; Cadillac, Corvette, Camaro Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. By utilizing more gearing, the 6L80 keeps the car in its power band longer, improving the MPG of the vehicle between 4-7% (over the previous generation fours speed transmissions) depending on the configuration of the vehicle that its in. But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. The transmission is automatically shifted featuring performance algorithms to minimize upshifts during closed throttle driving to prevent unnecessary shifting. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. Fluid Type Mercon ULV ATF I have a 700 R4 trani with a dash mounted after market switch to engage or disengage my lock up.The trani has a 2500 stall & is behind a old school 383 stroker engine with 388 hp at the motor with a 3.73 Rr gear. GM was still using their trustworthy 4L80E transmissions for heavier duty use, which was essentially a 1960's technologyTH400with added 1990's overdrive and electronic controls. Hi Jeff, GM has been useless to say the least, and waited me out (now off warranty). A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. Over time, technicians start to see the same patterns of failures in different families of units. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. The 4L60E was the first generation of transmission to work with a Gen III Vortec or LS motor. With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. The torque converter is a fluid turbine drive and - like those on its predecessor transmissions, the TH350C, 700R4, 4L60, and 4L80E - features a lock-up pressure plate for direct mechanically coupled driving from the engine crank. - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series. They all look really similar, so make sure that you bother to count the pan gasket bolts, especially if you have an untrained eye. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. Remember, this is just a theory. For both types A and B, a freeze-frame record will be stored in memory if the MIL illuminates. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. See how the ratios have swapped places? Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. But in order to make this work properly, they began by making the overall First gear ratio deeper. Its a longitudinal transmission (thats what the L in 6L80E stands for). When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. The complaint A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A Apply Time Out Of Range code. The 6L80 transmission pan is similar in shape but the 6L80 is shorter at 17 1/2 inches. Im with you on AFM is crap. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. Nov 26 . Its valuable to know that the debris you are seeing in the pans of all of those 6L80 and 6L90 units is very often from converter failure. Thought's? LT). Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: 2017- Ford F-150 2018- Ford Mustang 2018- Ford Expedition 2018- Lincoln Navigator 2019- Ford Ranger 2019- Ford Everest The 10L80 was a joint engineering effort between GM and Ford. Do you think that I might pick up a few more hundredths if I switch the lock on say when I hit second? Ford considers this to be a normal condition! Fifth 1.52 I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. TIPM Problems! To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. What is your recomendation for towing? Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. The 8L90 and 6L80 have the same size output shaft and mounting pattern. The check engine light might be on, and the customer complains of a slipping sensation with intermittent clunks. I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. The 6l80E transmission are the same through the entire line with changes made thru production in electronics. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. Also since the transmission is different the gearing and tuning are naturally different. And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case). Based around the 4L80E (and fitting wherever a 4L80E will fit), the 6X is a true six-speed transmission that TCI rates at 850-plus horsepower. As a transmission rebuilder, you know that flatness and rigidity of both apply and reaction surfaces are key to long clutch life in transmission clutch packs its the exact same in the torque converter. The Ford version is built at their Livonia transmission plant (Ford spent a reported $1.4 billion on retooling to build this transmission), and the GM version is built only a few miles away at their transmission factory in Romulus Michigan (GM spent a comparatively cheap $323 million retooling this factory). Click Here to Email our Sales & Tech Staff 888-748-4655 Local: 330-965-7146 International: 001-330-652-5855 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST Sat-Sun: Closed Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. 10L80 vs 10L90 Transmissions. Essentially what TCI did was to engage the overdrive at the back of the trans to split the gear spread between the original First and Second gear ratios and again between Second and Third. Required fields are marked *. should check for clearance. Spin losses (i.e. The complaints may be difficult to duplicate. You also asked about GM's new 6L80E. The 6L80 would have big shoes to fill, with legendary predecessors like the TH400, 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions. None of the above categories describe me. Larry Callahan Founder/Administrator of, and To advertise on click here They dealership gave Brian their opinion of what was making the noise. (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), (see also capacity of fluid in the converter. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? I & II The idea behind this conversion offers multiple overlapping advantages. The factory clutch apply piston has a sharp, square edge that does not completely apply force across the entire clutch piston. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 If you have your heart set on a six-speed automatic to back your LS, consider TCI's 6X transmission. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. Cart As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. $3,245*. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. 10L80 Transmission. This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. Learn how your comment data is processed. 3-Bolt Adapter Flange Yoke Kit. TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. While its true that, many times, the root cause of a converter failure lies in the transmission, in this case, there is ample evidence that the opposite is true: an inherent torque converter problem might be the root cause of a lot of the transmission failures. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A Stuck On. I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. Joined Feb 11, 2007 Messages 11 Location . This is a normal and desired behavior. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. All Rights Reserved. The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. Finished in a durable and corrosion-resistant clear anodize. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long. This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. Bolt and gasket inlcuded. Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. Before answering that question, its worth noting the role that Sonnax plays in the converter rebuilding business. 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. Sixth 1.28 6L80/6L90/8L90/10L90 AN Transmission Cooler Manifold Our Price: $150.00 Out of stock We now offer a convenient AN trans cooler manifold solution for the 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, and 10L90 transmission. This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. For now, the bulk of reported cases are related to diesel vehicles. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? vehicle weights. I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. Where the original 4L80E First gear is 2.48:1, TCI created a 2.97:1 First gear ratio. Did the converter clutch material just wear out, thus allowing the clutch and cover to go metal-on-metal? The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. While not new to the 6L80, it uses an Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and Output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. Its the best of both worlds. Case 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Gears Magazine How quickly time passes by. 700R4 / 4L60E with PATC close ratio gear set. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. This took the dealership a much longer period of time in acquiring these bolts for Brian to complete the job. In fact, the only 2017 model year vehicle that still comes with this transmission is the Chevrolet SS. When its enabled at low speeds the exhaust tone becomes muffled, the AFM valves clatter open and closed, v4 vibration and increased injector noise is nothing but annoying, especially with a convertible. The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. Powerglide (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), TH350 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), TH400 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP), TH200-4R (bellhousing pattern - BOP, Fit-all), TH700-R4 /4L60 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet). Complaints of erratic shifting, poor shift quality, missed shifts, and other shifting and TCC control complaints are becoming more common with these units. Shift the transmission to Neutral. Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. ASK FOR CHAD - Freight Shipping - 90 Day Warranty. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. 10L80 Performance Rebuild. It also contains a durable transmission pan, reliable gear seat, EPC, a 13-vane pump assembly, high-performance cooler, hardened stator shaft with rings and specialized control solenoids. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System. If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1. So is the 10L90 entirely different or does it just have stronger parts? That way you get a longer service life, along with a 3-year/Unlimited Mile Nationwide Warranty.. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . lbs., with a respectable GVW of 15,000 lbs. Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. Unlike previous shift solenoids, they are mechanical in nature in that no transmission fluid passes through them (Figure 2). Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. Established Member. Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? By reducing the rpm drop between gears, the engine remains within its power band. $ 158.00 Select options. 10R80 transmission swap? They can then use these unseen components throughout their different product lines and improve their profit margins through the lower shared development costs. Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. If we change to the latest GM 10-speed automatic it has a 4.70:1 First gear and is factory matched with a 2.85:1 rear gear. Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. The Nightmare on Oak Street: A hunt for 4L30E electrical problems How. Starting in 1996, many 4L60E transmissions employed a bolt-on bellhousing. It features dynamic veins and a rotating wheel driven by a steel gear with it's own filter.