Everything functions as it should. . I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. The late style stock featured a flared pistol grip moved back a bit from the trigger. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. For example, only about 300 Super Fox and 800 of the Ithaca Magnum 10 doubles went into hunters hands during the period. The Model 12 was about 40 percent more expensive than the '97, yet it consistently outsold its older brother during the 45-year-span they shared in the Winchester catalog. It was John Olin who inspired Westerns revolutionary Super-Xshotshell in 1921. Now I have never been wrong about anything in my lifeLOLjust kidding, but the way I read it on the top of page 109JMHOThanks, WC. Beautiful grain pattern and very tight hand checkering on the stock . Elmer Keith instructs:For the man who wants greater range and a bigger shot load for duck or goose shooting, the Model 12 Winchester is in a class by itself [with] the long 3 load. Nevertheless, the 1 7/8-ounce load appeared in the mid-50s and now a full two ounces of shot can be had in the 12 magnum. another state. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. Ernie Simmons had a close relationship with Winchester & John Olin; if you find any NSSA ,ATA, Field & Stream and Sports Afield magazines pre-war and post war you'll find he sold plenty of Winchesters out of his gun shop and attended many shoots selling target guns. community. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our Nash Buckingham was one of the great duck-hunting writers of the period. That luck ran out following World War I when the arms industry declined and the management of Winchester was relinquished to outsiders. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. Length of pull was reduced in January 1936 to reflect the extra clothing worn by duck hunters. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Winchester Model 12 12 ga 26" oal aftermarket poly choke and vent rib at the best online prices at eBay! John Olin initiated an analysis of Winchesters commercial line in 1942. WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " It has a Simmons rib, which is not out of the question for Winchester to have used according to Maddis in his book of the model 12's. The metal finish is superior to a field grade gun, higher polish and a matted receiver top and magazine tube. Charles Askins confirmed the tighter patterns and greater effective range in the field. Sales of 100,000 were recorded in the first two years of production. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. The rib wasn't offered until 1954 according to the Dave Riffle Model 12 book so it wasn't originally produced at the Winchester Factory. "SN:561491. Emphasis was placed on loads of #4 shot because of its historical significance in waterfowl hunting and association with the long-range objectives of the Model 12 duck gun. Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga Deluxe GI#: 102228842 Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex .Click for more info Seller: First Stop Gun Area Code: 605 $1,750.00 The marsh is in riot! Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 27 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. The deeply blued barrel and receiver frame are very good. A forum community dedicated to Trap shooting enthusiasts. Winchester advises Do not use steel shot in any Winchester shotgun with a fixed choke. Use tungsten polymer, tungsten matrix or bismuth shot for waterfowl hunting with your Model 12 duck gun. My name is Chuck 620 515 0556. Charles Askins was the leading expert on shotguns in the first half of the last century. RIAC believes that this website is accessible to the widest possible audience pursuant to the guidelines of the Americans with Disability Act. I am still going with "Winchester sent Model 12s to Simmons for ribs, but Simmons sold them." Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. If it's a 12 gauge, replacement factory butt stocks can be hard to come by. The magnum led to new class of long-range double-barrel shotguns for waterfowl. The barrels and receivers of Model 12 duck guns are made from Winchester Proof Steel. This steel was first used in the Model 21 double introduced in 1931. Gun Digest editors know guns so you know guns. Checkered stocks and extension slide handles were available as options on the standard grade throughout most of the duck guns production. Winchester suggests their 3-inch 12-gauge shotshells with 1 3/8-ounces or 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot for wildfowl hunting in their 1951 Ammunition Handbook: These shells were developed especially for extremes in long range shooting with 12-gauge Winchester Model 12 and Model 21 Heavy Duck Guns.. very accurate description and fast delivery, HOCH Reloading Single Cavity Mold c56 309170 .309 170gr nose pour NICE (#334593408927), Arrived quickly, well packaged, item is as described. It has a fiber optic front sight which is not origina, SOLD Ser no 1949422, Mfg 1962, 3-Pin Vent Rib, Full, 30" Barrel, Signed by M Dubber, Who I beleive was a colt engraver, 14 1/2" Lop to Winchester Red Vented Pad, Comes with case, Excel, Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3" MAGNUM. Full choke was the only standard boring available. Thereafter, a staggering number of variations were produced during the 1912-1980 period. The committee appointed to study the requirements for continuing business reported a successful reorganization would require the raising of a substantial amount of new capital. That capital was supplied by the Olin family of Olin Industries, owners of Western Cartridge Company. the ventilated rib is by simmons gin works. The used value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($310.78) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $447.25 . or Rudy Dozenrod out of Wyndemere, S.D. This fine shotgun comes from the factory with a Cutts choke system, Metal surfaces rate near excellent, handling marks to wood. George Watrous, a longtime Winchester employee with many talents, was commissioned to investigate the good and bad points of Winchesters pre-war line and make suggestions for postwar improvement. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 5d 7h 6m 17240921. Most sellers have no idea what they are selling. Western brought out their Super-X 2-3/4 and 3-inch shotshells in 1921. Epic 22 Pocket Pistol: The Beretta 71 Jaguar. Winchester recognized the scarcity of ducks in their promotional advertisement of the new duck gun To Meet the New Wildfowling Conditions. I suspect most Model 12 duck guns bought before World War II were put to work on other game. Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. S/N 1,589,*** made in 1954. The Model 12 duck gun came to market at the all-time low point of duck populations in the United States. I was glad to see this as I know for a fact that while many weren't done, they did indeed do some. Free shipping for many products! I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. Recent 3 1/2-inch 12-gauge shells will create dangerous pressure in the 3-inch duck gun chamber. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. Down pitch remained 2-1/2 inches with the 30-inch barrel throughout production. Gunsmithing Services - Simmons Gun Repair Full list of professional Gunsmithing services and prices at Simmons Gun Repair Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 On the other hand, a duck caught in the middle of one of these dense-centered pattern sat 40 yards would receive a dozen or more pellets. All Rights Reserved, Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun 30" Simmons Vent Rib 1953 Pre 64 Rare 12 Ga. Magnum 3" Edition Proof Marking. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. And you are not right about them becouse the model 12 evolved over time with improvements you didn't seem to catch becouse you are probable not a shooter. w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. The buttstock was reshaped on Model 12 shotguns again in the mid-1950s. The fact that the Winchester proof marks are now 'off set', caused me to believe the gun may have been returned to the factory for the rib installation. Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. Can you help me out? Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. It also got a new action slide. I fired 10 patterns for each of the five test loads in each of the two duck guns, for a total of 100 patterns. View cart for details. Winchester Pre War Mod 12 Trap 2 Barrel Set 12ga, Winchester Pre 64 Mod 12 DU Illinios No.1 Engraved by M Dubber, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3 INCH MAGNUM, Winchester Model 12 16 Gauge rare 2-barrel set, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, Winchester Mod 12 Vent Rib B-Carved Wood 12ga, "Winchester Model 12 Shotgun 12 Gauge (W12258), Winchester, Ducks Unlimited, Model 12, 12 Ga, Shotgun, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" 3" mag, Briley Chokes, Winchester Model 12 12 ga. Deluxe Skeet grade w/ factory Cutts, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge 24" VR bbl EARLY Serial #. Bore and action are excellent. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. rifle w/ Jaeger Quick Detachable scope mount 3 Remington mod. Stadt's book is a very good book that alot of people don't seem to know about. It still is. Here-tofore, you could only shoot this weight of shot in a 10-gauge double gun with 2 7/8-inch chambers, or the new Ithaca Magnum 10. 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. The original "Old milled rib" was developed by Winchester in the 1920's- but like so many of the older quality features, post WW11 competition by Remington and Ithaca made Olin-Winchester more "cost concerned"-- Many Model 12's were equipped with Simmons ribs afterwards, some were sent to New Haven by Simmons, and some Model 12's (and others . a post would have spent 281.5 hours trying to correct off handed remarks as a expert about winchester model 12's & 42's. He was the chief designer of the Model 21 double, John Olins favorite. My second blast bites off a dismayed climber. A red rubber Winchesterre coil pad was added the first year of production. The 3-inch shell was chambered originally in the famous Super Fox long-range double. Alarm calls! According to the Serial# 1439865, and Winchester manufacturing records, this gun w. 12ga, #366988, 30 inch barrel, 2 1/2 inch chamber, full choke, solid rib, blue finish, straight grip checkered walnut stock, checkered walnut forearm, 13 3/4 LOP with "newer" Winchester pad, 12ga, #1417110, 30 inch barrel, 3 inch chamber, full choke, blue finish, walnut stock and forearm, solid rib, original red rubber pad, 1954. He worked with another Winchester researcher. In those good old days of the 1960s the ducks flew just above the cattails and shots were plentiful. I included #2 shot because this size shot has always been my goose and turkey load in 3-inch shells. Very good condition overall. Factroy finish on metal, custom wood. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up Click here for more information. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. Generally, a Simmons rib gun will bring a higher price than a plain barrel gun, and a lower price than a solid rib or Winchester vent rib gun, all other factors being equal. Model 12 duck guns could be ordered in pidgeon grade, featuring fancy wood and meticulous fitting and finish of parts. Actually, it is generally thought by researchers that no Winchester factory Model 12 ribs were made or installed by Simmons. Delivery times may vary, especially during peak periods. IC CHOKED MIROKU MADE. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. I believe the blueing to be original. Possible the fore end has been either replaced or re done. The perimeter of the disc was then marked and the enclosed pellet holes counted. Winchester Model 12 in 16 ga with a 26" barrel with a full choke. The old trap shooters didn't and they did just fine. The receiver is heavier and so is the barrel. It is at my engraver now. Made in 1928, 12 Gauge, 28"" barrel. MAKE OFFER. Its failure to release on discharge made it impossible to shoot doubles [at skeet] with this particular sample. The staff concluded, Mechanically, the sample was not as good as other guns of the same model. Noted were machine marks on the breech bolt, wood not closely fitted, primers struck off center and sharp edges at the chamber. so recall pads helped and they offerd hydro coil-stocks. 1937 2pin vent rib offerd, all skeet grade guns offerd with solid or plain barrels. However, killing ducks at long range remained the objective of many duck hunters. But for some reason, buying a gun online can . Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . Manufactured in 1959. Herbert Houze summarizes the Watrous report in his book Winchester Repeating Arms Company, Its History & Development from 1865 to 1981. Thanks= Re-Up- forgot the offset marks on a factory ribbed gun- two of my 5 pre-1950 M12's have the factory solid rib, and the 1948 Pigeon Trap has the "Old Milled Rib" with the sandblast bulled top and the "Duck-Billed" rib extension. Simmons vent rib and custom AA+ walnut furniture. Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. The Olins were businessmen first and duck hunters second. during that time I handled many M-12's of varying configurations. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. Curious, I fired five additional patterns at 60 yards with Model 12 number 1418XXX and the Winchester load of 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot. prior written consent of the Copyright holder. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? At a reasenable Price, you can have that gun you allways wanted without all this drama. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. The duck gun made in 1952 has a Simmons ventilated rib. Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. Must ship to an FFL. We limited our shooting to 25 yards or less and seldom missed. John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. I wish I had them back! at the best online prices at eBay! His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. As to price, it will also depend on gauge, barrel length, choke, barrel steel, wood type, pad vs. plate, etc. 98% original, WINCHESTER MODEL 25 PUMP SHOTGUN SOLID FRAME MODEL BARREL LENGTH 28" CHOKE MODIFIED. Charles Askins, in an article entitled Long Range Shotguns in the January 1930 issue of the American Rifleman, concludes that a 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot, patterning 80% or better is pretty reliable [on ducks] at 65 yards. However, Askins goes on to say I have never, personally, had a shotgun which would reach far enough. Before the eight gauge was banned in 1918, Askins had a Greener eight-gauge double with 36-inch barrels weighing 13 pounds. The drop at heel was reduced from 2-1/2 to 2-3/8 inches in December 1938. ONLY ONE EVER PRODUCED BY WINCHESTER, ULIMATE RARITY. Winchester stated both 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 shells perform satisfactorily in this [duck] gun. The ejection port of the duck gun is about 1/8-inch longer than the standard port. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. These ribs have Simmons markings. L.O.P. Remington re-tooled from the M31 to the stamp, push and press 870 which sold for less than the M12. Buckingham is jump-shooting with his big double gun. Could it be that the intended rough usage led to lack of care in the fitting of parts of early duck guns? Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known. Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. Askins rule of thumb of 70 years ago still pertains with modern lead-shot ammunition. The new Model 12 duck gun was introduced to long-range waterfowl hunters habituated to heavy double shotguns chambered for 3-inch shells. Bids. JavaScript is disabled. 12 Gauge, For sale is the Winchester Model 12. At Guns.com, if an FFL is The price $379 does not seem out of line for model 12's in this area; however, my question is does the Simmons rib add or detract from the value of the gun? These were called long-range waterfowl guns.. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. Only rib extensions of the same width as the factory ventilate drib are found on receivers of duck guns. Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. An offset proof mark will boost the value compared to an aftermarket rib. The funds are returned to the states for wildlife restoration projects. will a queen size mattress fit in a silverado, aetna medicare otc catalog 2021,